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Copyright © 1999, by the Middle East Data Project, Inc. All rights reserved.
Iran Brief publisher Kenneth R. Timmerman spoke recently in London and Paris with two influential Iranian clerics, who represent the traditionalist current of Shiite Islam in Iran.
(Excerpts from interview with Ayatollah Mehdi Rouhani)
IB: After seventeen years of so-called Islamic rule, does the clergy still have any relevance to ordinary Iranians?
Rouhani: There are two institutions that will always remain special in Iran: the clergy, and the King.
Iranian Shiites believe that the supreme religious leader of their community represents the invisible Imam, the occulted Imam. So it is part of their duty as Shiites to respect him.
This was the case with Ayatollah Khomeini. Despite his errors, his faults, Khomeini had a role to play, because he was a mujtahed. The day he died, seven million Iranians beat their breasts in mourning. And so did the regime. Because with Khomeini, the regime itself died. It lost any legitimacy it once had.
Khamene'i is not a supreme religious leader. He is not a mujtahed. Iranians do not believe in this regime. But they do believe in their religious leaders and in their religion. And they believe that religion should remain in its place as a moral force in the nation.
Everyone knows that this regime has failed. But no civilian has the power to unseat clerics who are unjustly running the government. Only the clergy can do that. What is needed today is to empower the clergy to overthrow the regime. It is the clergy that must rise and say to these other so-called clerics who have devastated our country: you are lying, and you are debasing Islam. Only the clergy has the power and the prestige to do so.
IB: You were a candidate in the 1989 presidential elections. Will you run for President next year?
Rouhani: Even if this regime were overthrown, I would not accept a post in a new government. I believe the clergy has lost its legitimacy to rule. The clergy must return to the mosque.
I absolutely do not accept that the spiritual leader of Iran's Shiites should be the political leader of Iran. How can a religious man be commander in chief of the army? How can he command the State treasury, or prepare the budget, or conduct international affairs? Yes, the religious leader has responsibilities: to build mosques, to help children, and the poor. But I believe this is a false distinction.
There is no war in Iran between the turban and the tie. Competence should reign in each area. We need the best engineers to build our bridges, the best legal experts to craft our laws, and the most experienced jurists to interpret the Koran. When someone is gravely ill, they want the best specialist. Iranians deserve as much.
IB: Abdolkarim Soroush has attracted a wide following inside Iran, where his speeches are attended by thousands of people. Do you feel he represents a potential for change in Iran?
Rouhani: Soroush is an agent of the regime, and differs with them only slightly.
When Soroush says there are 100 'sources of imitation,' what he is really doing is seeking to split the clergy, to keep them from uniting around a single, pre-eminent figure, such as happened with Ayatollah Khomeini. Whenever you say there are 100 sources of imitation, you are saying there cannot be one leader who is respected by all, and who could challenge the regime.
This was the argument Khamene'i used when he tried [unsuccessfully] to assume the mantle as leader of the Shiite community after the death of Ayatollah Golpeygani two years ago. Soroush is following the same line.
Even Youssof Sanai, a former Islamic Prosecutor, is claiming to be among the "one hundred" sources of imitation. He was my student when I was still in Iran.
Recently Mohammad Khoiniha [Ed. note: former Prosecutor General and publisher of Salam daily newspaper] made the same argument, calling for several sources of imitation. This is the regime's attempt to confuse and disperse people, nothing more.
Why else has the regime locked up the Grand Ayatollahs in their houses, and prevented them from seeing their followers? To keep the people from uniting around them.
IB: What role do you feel the clergy has in the opposition
Rouhani: In any opposition there must be a center. And the only center for the opposition in Iran is religion. This is not a personal ambition. It is simply a statement of fact.
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